AGREED!

The current actions of many of the teachers are hurting our children.

GEA WEBSITE SAYS :"What the teachers have not done is anything which negatively impacts the education of the students. We care deeply about each and every child we teach and do not want to be forced into doing anything that would impact those students’ education!"

1) If you are not doing anything negative then why are many teachers doing the "bare minimum"...choosing not to display the children's artwork, not changing bulletin boards in primary classes, no longer implementing learning centers, ignoring the seasonal themes and projects in years past...basically not doing all the "fun" learning activities they were praised for in previous years?

2) If you are not doing anything negative then why are my children coming home with worksheet after worksheet that looks like it could have been used 20 years ago? What happened to the innovative curriculum and hands on learning?

3) If you are not doing anything negative then why didn't the teachers in our school dress up during the Red Ribbon theme week as in past years but instead chose to wear green shirts everyday instead.

Some of the teachers have stopped teaching and have become babysitters. You are hurting our children!

BOE...you have worked hard to offer a fair contract. The GEA is choosing to act in an unreasonable, selfish and greedy manner. Let them strike and REPLACE the ones who have lost sight of the reason for teaching.

Settle down MTG...you have no idea what is happening in the negotiations. It's a matter of language at this point.

I second that!!!!!!

Me too...just strike already and we can get on with the process!

Just to clarify I didn't second Tom Fortune. I seconded MTG's post. Tom how do you know what is going with the negotiations? Is your schoold district helping out?

yes

Tom I certainly believe you. You are playing games like Pat L aka Aaron.

Well said. While I am not hoping for a strike it may unfortunately be the only way to fundamentally change the outdated system. I hope the teachers recognize this and stand up to their leadership.

All of the leadership is listed here:
http://www.ieanea.org/about

Yes, he sure is.

I strongly agree with this. There must be no further concessions from the BoE.

Cody
Here are my thoughts on your questions
1: Where does Special Education fall in this? Continue to follow state mandates. This would be considered a mandatory category and teacher compensated within that range.
2: How do you rightfully judge what subjects are more important to one student than the other? This is a public school system and must be run as one. Music is not a required class. The student can take as many music classes as the district offers but we aren't offering a music major. They are working toward a high school degree.
3: How do you really evaluate a teacher from year to year? Don't doubt there are some students and parents that just don't care. But there would be a history of these instances and the expectations for those students & teachers would be lower. The evaluation of a teacher isn't meant to try and fire them. It is meant to give them support and training where needed.
4: Sick Days, if you say use them or lose them, they will use them costing the district about $90 a day for each one. If they use them to retire early, it cost us more because the retiring teacher is making more money than 10 or 15 years prior. At retirement we pay the teachers higher salary plus the cost of a sub. Sick days are sick days, they should be used what they are for.

Cody
5: Masters’ degrees currently have to be approved by the district. There are a lot of positions in the district that require a type 75 degree. I say promote from within.
Don't disagree but we can't be paying for type 75 degrees for people who will never be promoted. They pay for the type 75 and then get rewarded when they get promoted.
6: You are going to have to stipend the sports. There are countless hours involved and you will run through volunteers faster than water.
What I would really like to see is sports self supporting. Parents are willing to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for club sports & travel but don't want to pay $300 for school teams. Like it or not, sports are an extra. I'm saying that as a parent of an athlete that was on college scholarship. Parents are placing too much emphasis on sports and expecting others to pay for it. I probably need to get a better handle on the costs to run the district sports teams. Can tell you one thing, we don't need separate fields for all sports at the middle school level.
7: You say $80,000 to $100,000 a year. That is about what we pay now before the extras that teachers do is added on. The average salary is @$75k which means some make less and some make more than 75k, including stipends. The state doesn't break down stipends but maybe they should.
I'm an independent contractor & don't know what my co-workers make. I'm paid on my performance, not theirs.
Thanks for continuing the conversation.

The email address is: board@geneva304.org

Oh, I almost forgot: Remember, all salaries are public information so you can't pay women less like you do in the "real world"!

All very good questions. I'm sure that if the compensation system were to be rebuilt from the ground up many good ideas would emerge. I'll list a few of my own to get the conversation going but please keep in mind this is a conversation, not a bashing session against any new ideas. If you want to just bash everything, we'll not get anything accomplished. So lets get a list of ideas and see what are the best and might be workable.
1. starting salary - lets start every teacher out at $50,000. They would stay at $50,000 until after their 3rd year of teaching is completed. This pays them a fair salary while they are learning the job. Shows the district is committed
2. Each "subject" taught falls into one of three categories - lets call them Core, Mandatory & Elective. Core would include sciences & math. Mandatory would be reading, writing & social studies, etc. Elective would be music, phys. ed, theater, business classes etc.
3. Each category would have a high, mid & starting point for salary. Everyone in every category would need to fall within the range for that category. Where you fell would depend on specific measures developed and agreed upon by the teacher, department head and school principal or selected administrator.
4. Each teacher would be given a fixed dollar allowance that they can spend on benefits. there would be a menu of benefits available with a cost assigned to each. Teacher could spend up to their dollar allowance on what they want to have.

5. 10 Sick days would be available with no roll over option.
6. Once a Masters' Degree was obtained, a one time $10,000 bonus would be earned. Administration would need to approve all seeking a Masters Degree.
7. All stipends for sports would be eliminated except for head coaches. All other coaching positions would be volunteer either from teachers or community members.
8. Out of classroom responsibilities (stipends) - this would be reviewed and updated. I don't know enough about what we are paying for to make a suggestion on this topic.
Allowing the teachers to choose the benefit package they want gives them to choose what is best for them and also limits the district's cost. Compensation should not change based on years of experience. What is a great salary for 180 days of work? I would suggest that $80,000 - $100,000 is a great salary for 180 days of work. We need to get away from the notion that teachers work long hours because everyone works long hours today. Going to school in the summer would be compensated once a degree is earned.

For any reform to work everyone needs to be honest with themselves. Being a teacher is a tough job and they should be rewarded but so are many other professions. Job security is a huge benefit that many teachers have that others don't. There needs to be a trade offer for that job security in some way.
That's my broad brush view. Rather than bash the ideas, I hope people will expand on them or tweak them to make them viable.

Dave you raise excellent questions and I think Bob M. is on the right track with his response. The potential for a constructive discussion is clearly on the horizon.

Clearly we don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are charter schools, private schools, and entire districts in Western states without unions. There has to be a school system somewhere who was innovative enough to implement a merit pay compensation successfully. Will a major overhaul be easy or painless? No. However with due diligence, thoughtful planning and attention to detail a major system can be restructured for the benefit of the taxpayers and the teachers.

Bitterness doesn't motivate our concerns, Dave. That is a characteristic of many on the teachers' side of the argument -- understandably -- as the GEA/IEA have put them in a very precarious position.

We can expect each replacement teacher to have a rational and detailed individual contract, which s/he will be pleased to sign. Will you protect your future by being one of them?

I'm with Bob and Enough. To address Dave's understandable and legitimate questions perhaps the Board should reduce the offered contract to a 1 year term to allow the Board enough time to obtain further input from the community and contract with a consultant to study the best practices of private, charter or religious schools who have merit based systems. We could then come back after the 2013/14 school year with a proposal for a fundamentally revised compensation system that eliminated the components the community now finds so objectionable.

Oh, and I almost forgot….in the real world the Equal Pay Act of 1963 prohibits wage disparity between men and women who work in the same place and perform jobs that require substantially the same "skill, effort, and responsibility." In addition, Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act prohibits discriminatory hiring, firing and promotions as well as pay.

Bob,
1: Where does Special Education fall in this? There are so many state mandated requirements in Special Ed, it would make your head spin. Make on false move and the parents will sue for due process.
2: How do you rightfully judge what subjects are more important to one student than the other? If a student plans to be a music major, then those classes are more important than say a science class is.
3: How do you really evaluate a teacher from year to year? Some years they just get a bad group of students that don’t try and the parents don’t give any support from home. I know, this is hard to believe that there are parents that don’t care, but just ask any teacher and they will tell you it is true.
4: Sick Days, if you say use them or lose them, they will use them costing the district about $90 a day for each one. Teaching is not like most jobs out there. There must be someone in that class every day. Let them build them up and retire one year early. It gets a high priced teacher out and a cheaper one in.

5: Masters’ degrees currently have to be approved by the district. People say why in administration? There are a lot of positions in the district that require a type 75 degree. I say promote from within.
6: You are going to have to stipend the sports. There are countless hours involved and you will run through volunteers faster than water.
7: You say $80,000 to $100,000 a year. That is about what we pay now before the extras that teachers do is added on. When I say extras, I am talking about things like department chair, marching band, summer school….. the list goes on and on. It isn’t fair to think that these people should not be paid for doing extra work.
Until there is a true fair system, step and lane is the best alternative. We all understand that there will be some teachers that take advantage of it, but that is the same in the real world. How many people do you work with that you feel don’t deserve what they make? I know I have several of them.

Cody why should we have to fool around with adding 2 more sick days to let them accumulate? Why don't we give the teachers a year off with pay before the year they retire? That makes perfect sense doesn't it? Cart blanche for the teachers!!!! After all it is all for the children.

Many parents post anonymously because we have children that attend Geneva schools and to believe that teachers won't be biased against our children for our support of the school board is naive and idealistic. Parentsfor304@hotmail.com

Please consider writing the BOE. The more we can let them know the community is behind them the better!

Beth Ward Quote:
"The opinions I see here are overwhelmingly in favor of valuing input from parents, students and fellow teachers, with evaluations being public record. What a breath of fresh air....to know that your voice about your child's teachers can influence their compensation, either as a raise, freeze, or dismissal."
Really Beth? That should pretty much guarantee that every kid will get a "A" in their classes! I am sure their are plenty of parents out there who will want to use that kind of power over the teachers to extort a higher GPA/class rank from teachers. Nowadays grades are money when it comes to academic scholarships.

Hey Thomas,
Speaking from personal experience, it takes more than just grades to get academic scholarships. It take a high ACT score, and high scores on A/P test as well. These are not the kind of test a teacher can just give an A on. Yes you can take that as fact! Three kids through college and we have never paid a dime of tuition. My kids are products of the Geneva School system and the great teachers they have had through the years.

Cody, congratulations! Are your kids all happily and gainfully employed in the field that they majored in? If so, you are very fortunate. I only ask because I am aware of many intelligent products of the Geneva School System who excelled in their college careers, but are having trouble finding full time employment in their chosen fields. Unlike you, many of them have large amounts of student loans. Unlike you, many had to have their parents co-sign these student loans.

I am very proud to say yes they are.

Cody! You got 3 kids, all got full ride scholarships for all 4 years? All are working in the major fields?

That's amazing! Congrats, dude!

Did they all get like 36 on their ACT?

No, but close.

Cody, just out of curiosity...did any of them aspire to become teachers?

Dave, the board members regularly receive advice and counsel from the district's administrators who we pay for their expertise in finance, logistics, transportation, curriculum, best teaching practices, etc. This is not outside assistance. What I took from Mr. Grosso's comments was that the administrators are not involved in the direct negotiations.

You can rest assured that these are not seven people flying by the seat of their pants.

Angela...You're such an angry lady...you're going to give yourself a grabber...

Tom, really you are an adminstrator and make comments like that.

He is just trying to stir the pot. He implys that he has inside information by his little inuendos. He offers nothing constructive.

And lastly Tom, the BOE did the right thing in communicating the offers. You forget we pay the teachers' salaries. You are just upset because it revealed the greedy side of the teachers. Obviously, it is not at all about the kids and the community.

Pension spiking isn't extortion?

Hey, here's a thought, Arron. If you and Dave Larson don't already know each other, maybe you should get together and have a drink with my friend, Debbie Downer.

Or, perhaps Dave can let Pat L/Arron stay at his house that is for sale on 38. After Pat/Arron threw his own wife directly under the tires of the bus the other day, I can assume his wife wouldn't mind a bit of alone time.
The following statement was overheard today by a teacher: The teachers might not strike on Monday, because that is when "we" are all expecting it. They might make it Wednesday AND they might just go home on Tuesday and just not show up on Wednesday in hopes of making everyone scramble. Boy, that sure sounds like no one wants this to affect the students, doesn't it. It IS a game to them and I am ready to play! Start the strike tomorrow cause I am sick and tired of this garbage.

Sorry Jules, I hope you weren't feeling too neglected! Did you uncover this info on one of your covert missions to Graham's 318? Actually, I heard that it will be at noon on Sunday. You guys will never expect that.

You're not hearing details because the board has learned to keeps it's mouth shut and not get angry people who speak before they think invooved. They have been fueling the drama in the community by sending out their email blasts. It makes them look like pouting little kids. I think they got the message after a few email blasts...

GOOD ONE, DAVE! (truly smiled!) I can see now why your solution to things is not to actually FIX the chair legs, but just prop them up temporarily, kind of like throwing inordinate amounts stimulus money into the winds and hoping enough of it sticks somewhere to say that it worked. Is that what you'd like to do with GEA, Dave, just throw more money into the winds and be oh so hopeful that it makes it all better (until 3 years from now) ? I was quite surprised that you just didn't suggest I just prop my chair up on the backs of the Geneva Taxpayers. to correct the 'imbalance', as you would have us do with GEA. However, Dave, the real solution here would be to TRIM BACK the other OVERREACHING, OVEREXTENDED legs to bring it all back into balance. (and FYI, I can't stomach the far right, either, am truly centrist, but I can see how it might look that way to someone who's so far to the left that he's now coming up on my right!)

@ t
Face it - the IEA is a political machine operating by using threats- threats to the GEA and teachers, threats to the politicians (visit their site and you will see more political initiatives than education initiatives) and threats to communities. It is a professional shake-down institution and Geneva is being shaken down.

t - I have been waiting for someone to raise those points - standard incremental pay increases? paid medical benefits? tons of sick time AND summers off? pension spikes & early retirement??? I believe those benefits originated as a way to compensate for what in the past was traditionally low pay for teachers - which in some Districts might even still be the case. In Geneva though, I'm not sure that, for instance, a pension spike is necessary when the average teacher earns $75K? I respect and love my children's teachers and would give them the world if I had it to give. But, sadly, the economy/times have changed and their requests must too.

They are keeping the school buildings open and your grade school children will be able to continue to attend. You just have to call to leave details of your children who will continue to attend.
"If you did not call to inform the District of your intent to send your child(ren) to school during a teacher strike, please call 630-463-3088 as soon as possible; please spell your child’s name and indicate your child’s grade and school. Similarly, if you called to report that your child(ren) would attend and your plans have since changed, please call 630-463-3088 to inform us that your child(ren) will not be attending."

Jennifer...I think they know this and will not strike on Friday because of it...I would HOPE they would show decency on that! The deadline isn't Friday...that is the soonest they CAN strike. My vote is Monday....or Wednesday..unless the leak has uncovered their master plan to "surprise" us. Or you could listen to Mr. Davey Larson...but he offers nothing more than fluff...to put it nicely. He obviously is getting the union bs fed to him w/a spoon...a big one. Too bad he can't open his eyes and read the contracts for what they are.

I cannot believe nobody has called out Mr. Young on several of his points yet. He claimed that our biggest competition was Stevenson High School in Lincolnshire, and that their starting teachers make over $50,000 (which, I guess, implies that we should aim to pay our starting teachers that much). However, if you go to any of the real estate websites you can easily see why they must start at $50,000. Arrange the housing prices from lowest to highest - there are currently only 5 homes in Lincolnshire listed under $200,000. We call that, Mr. Young, a cost of living adjustment!

Further, he seemed baffled by the idea that our students score so highly on all of the standardized tests, yet our schools spend less per student than the state average. “How do we do that?” he asked. I can tell you, Mr. Young – it is because parents have routinely opened their own pocket books (on top of the steep taxes we already pay) to provide for all of the teachers’ wants!

Susan
I called out Steve Young a couple of meetings ago when he attempted to speak during the first public comment section after Mark Grosso closed it. As he went to the mic I said to him, "why can the union president's husband speak when the rest of us have to wait till the rest of the meeting is over." Since Steve knows me, he turned and asked if I wanted to take his time, which I said I would. When the crowd complained, I informed them who Steve Young was. Though I'm sure the teachers knew who he was, others did not. I suggested we all wait till the second comment period. Sometime you need to stand up and demand equal treatment. At that meeting, many GEA supporters spoke longer than they should have and ignored Mark's statement that there would be no more speakers till the second session. If Mr. Young had not be stopped, I'm sure another person would have tried to follow him. If I can wait an hour to speak, so can everyone else.

Thanks Robert Jr. Please notify the School Board of this relevation.

Get a Hobby Beth...

I tried several times also - was suspicious but did not want to go down the path of coverup.

Conflict of interest? Extortion? You bet.

Daily Herald states "There are 422 teachers, social workers, school psychologists, librarians and other certified educators in the bargaining unit; 388 of them are members of the GEA"

It seems like Geneva has at least 34 educator who are courageous enough to stand up to the GEA by saying "No, we do not want to join your union!" Those 34 educators should be commended for their backbone and be an example to the remaining 388 lemmings who will follow their union leadership off a cliff!

I just read the Daily Herald article...and it truly is the 11th hour. There is another board/GEA meeting today at 1:00.
If you have never commented or sent an email...NOW IS THE TIME.
Let Mr. Grosso go into that meeting with clear convictions about what the community wants. If you support the teachers and want the board to accept their offer, let them know NOW. If you don't, let them know NOW.
I know I've put tons of time into this discussion...because I grew up with a mom who was a school board member. My time is NOTHING compared to the hundreds of volunteer (UNPAID) hours these board members devote. I'm sure that the negotiating team has literally put their lives on hold this last couple of weeks. They deserve the couple of minutes it will take you to type an email.

Martin Luther King said,
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

Ann
Good post, I do believe if everyone leaves their egos at the door, reform can be accomplished. I have wondered why we give so much control to the state. What is the state going to do, we cover 90% of the costs of the Geneva School District. They aren't going to take over the distirct.
Maybe it comes down to a committee of parents, teachers & a school board member or two to sit down and develop a viable compensation structure over the next two years. We have the expertise to solve the problem, we just need to want to. I have always thought that the teachers would be an excellent source of how to cut expenses. They see how taxpayer money is spent on things that aren't needed. Why not develop a plan where 50% of the savings found by teachers goes into a salary fund for them. We need to bring the teachers into the budget process. Next week the BOE will be deciding how much they will have to spend next school year. That is being done by the tax levy that will be approved in December. So rather than looking at what we need to operate, the BOE looks at how much they can get. The budget is then built around and up to that number. That is opposite of the way it should happen. We should be developing a budget on what we need as opposed to what we can get. In my opinion, in past years we have spent money only because we had it not because we needed it.

Ann you have some good points. First off, I don't think it is fair to blame the teachers for the CURRENT system we have for paying them and retirement. We can blame them for their actions pertaining to this new contract. But keep in mind, they are just trying to protect what they have, and everyone here would do the same. The real problem right now is the board is trying to do away with the step and lane with no future plan in place. If they had come to the negotiations with a future plan in place then fine, but they didn't. How do you blame the teachers for that? Tell the BOE to come to the table with a real compensation plan for the future, and see what happens. I am all for supporting our BOE, but not with a plan that will turn our schools into a revolving door for new teachers.

Ann, Bob, Cody

All of you have asked excellent questions and made productive and forward thinking suggestions. I would hope that you would consider running for school board or at least send emails to the BOE with your suggestions on reform. It would be a shame if the conversation was limited to the Patch comments. It just may take some fresh thinking from the community to move us ahead of this impasse.

PS Cody said "I am all for supporting our BOE, but not with a plan that will turn our schools into a revolving door for new teachers." Given the high unemployment within the education sector (and 10,000+ resumes on file with the regional board of education) I am guessing whoever snatches up any open positions after a strike/replacement would be THRILLED to have a job and would work their tail off to keep it in a district filled with passionate, supportive and dedicated parents.

Miss M,
With what the BOE has last put on the table for the GEA, new teachers will come in, get a year or two experience, and move on to a district that has step and lane. What people don't realize is even if there was zero increase to the value of each square in step and lane, a new teacher will lose over $50,000 over their career with a one year hard freeze. That is why the GEA is fighting for it so hard.

Thank you, Ann, for bringing reason (facts) and insight to the discussion. I agree with Cody that you can't throw out one system until you have a clear plan for a new one. And I am still skeptical that a true merit system can be worked out. Until you work in a school and see the variety of activities and methods of assessment that teachers must rely on and be held accountable for, it is far too easy to just say "some alternative method" can be worked out.

On another note, even though I am a teacher (in another district) I believe that pension spiking must come to an end.

Finally, I really don't believe there is an IEA conspiracy unfolding here. Locals are a democratic institution as is IEA with elected leaders. There has been no "top down" pressure to strike in any of the 3-4 contract negotiations I have been involved in.

@Scott -
Having worked as a teacher and in the private sector, I understand the activities and responsibilities of both sides. I can comfortably say that the variety of tasks, responsibilities and methods required is no more daunting for either role.

Why can't merit-based systems function in a similar fashion to the private sector? It isn't so difficult to fathom and actually works quite well for hard-working, productive employees.
- Employees are split into departments, each with a lead. (How my school and companies worked.)
- Each employee has a pre-defined, mutually-agreed set of targets for the year and an annual review. The assessments are performed by the next level up (by the team lead or, for team leads, by the principal) and a self-assessment is performed.
- Every year, the company/school is given a figure which can be used for raises and a separate figure which can be used for bonuses.
- The boss/principal/boe gives to each lead the bonus bucket to allocate as needed.
- The company/school/boe allocates a range of percentage raises, if finances permit, based on employee performance.

It works. Does favoritism happen and do some employees always feel they are undervalued? Yes, but they have assessments to show them why and they are always welcome to look for another position in another company/school.

This time of guaranteed everything and waiting around for retirement has to end. It is these teachers who make a bad name for the rest of you.

@ t - exactly! It's not hard....it happens in the majority of businesses all over the country all the time.

PART 1

Cody --you said "new teachers will come in, get a year or two experience, and move on to a district that has step and lane." I strongly disagree.

As a former teacher, with many friends who are certified current and former teachers, I think you overestimate the number of available jobs in other districts. Additionally, everyone seems to be overlooking those aspects that are not as easily quantifiable that make a teacher's job SO much easier in Geneva. How do you put a price on the fact that in the vast majority schools in Geneva are 1) filled with kids who eat three healthy meals (or more) a day 2) have all the comfortable material possessions and living environment that make life fun a stress free, 3) have parents, grandparents, etc who care deeply about their academics and spend an inordinate amount of time volunteering in the classroom, extra curricular activities, and with homework, 4) have access to the quality of life aspects of Geneva (park district, travel teams, library, cultural events, private lessons, etc), 5) have relatively low stress lives and live in loving homes? I could go on and on.

PART 2
Unless you have actually taught in a school (like I have) where kids haven't eaten breakfast (or even dinner the night before) wear the same clothes and shoes with holes in them day after day, have a parent in prison or dead, have more stress in their live than one little body can hold...then you don't know how difficult it is to teach. Geneva teachers have the perfect conditions which provides for a superior opportunity to teach.I don't think Geneva teachers can even fathom what it is like to teach in a school where the problems and challenges are staggering. That alone is why there is a line of teachers who would accept a job and never leave for another district because a few thousand dollars in pay cannot compare to the quality of life for teachers and students in Geneva. This is a HUGE benefit even if it is not something you can put a price tag on.

Part 3

So to say a teacher will lose $50,000 over the course of a career is not pulling on my heartstrings because what the teachers GAIN is so much greater. The sheer blessing of being able to teach in a district that is crime free, stress free, affluent, with tremendous physical resources, support staff, dedicated PTO, and more parent volunteers they could ever want or need is priceless.

I am SO tired of the teachers of Geneva talking about how they cannot attract high quality candidate without a pay increase and how they cannot compete without a step and lane union run system is ridiculous. I don't think a portion of our pampered Geneva teachers could survive a week in a lesser district because they have become too entitled. I don't see a long line of job openings in any district so it is easier to pretend the grass is greener somewhere else, until you realize somehwere else doesn't exist. I do see a long line at the unemployment office though...so maybe they should taste the real world and see how quickly their job replacements take the positions and work hard with gratitude to be teaching in Geneva.

@Enough - Thank you so much for spelling it out as someone with experience. I have to say, as a working parent who takes vacation days out of my paltry private-sector allotment to perform volunteer activities with the PTO because I care about our schools, students and teachers, the demands of the GEA feel like a kick in the face.

Sadly, it's the teachers who are required to teach in the circumstances you describe in Part 2 who are probably sorely underpaid.

Angela, I think there are a lot of people just as angry as you are...but Tom Fortune sounds downright hostile. I wish he would stay on topic and offer something other than criticism.
Maybe if he gets together with his friends, Pat L, LP, Mollie, The Truth and Thomas,
they can piece together a cogent argument for the union.

now filling in for the late Ron Palillo, the GEA membership, starring as Arnold Horshak: OOOOOOHHHHH! OOOOOOHHHHH! OOOOOOHHHHH!

Bruce, I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion. Bringing together a think tank of educators, administrators, citizens, and BOE members could possibly yield a very viable solution. No disrespect to the Driver's Ed instructor, but this is not an effective use of tax payer funds. If you take $124,000 divided by 37 (the # of weeks the teachers are in school I believe) it equals $3,351/week. For those of us that work year round, that would be equivalent to $174,252/year (based on a 52 week work schedule). That is certainly a healthy salary. One that is almost double the median household income of Geneva. Please do not mistake my point. I am not saying an educator does not deserve a substantial salary. What I am saying is that yes, there are aspects of education that are worth more than others. I realize this is a contentious point. But, this is not kindergarten. We no longer have the finamcial capacity to make sure everyone is equal; because, the reality is that all are not equal. The world into which we are sending our children is increasing global and highly competitive, yet also collaborative. Incorporating a merit system could be an excellent motivation tool for encouraging staff to strive for excellence. Teachers, you are perpetually pushing your students to work harder, strive for more, why can't the tax payers encourage the same for you? In the end, won't we all succeed?

Well said Bruce!

Yes it is double dipping and it is the precedent in Geneva. I believe their sub pay get credited to their TRS account (teacher retirement system)as well. It really needs to change because not only are the retired teachers the first in line for daily sub jobs, they are also being offered the long term sub positions (maternity leave, medical leave). If they CHOOSE to retire, they should move along and give someone else a chance to get their foot in the door. At my children's school the classroom teacher can put in their request for a "specific" sub and it is usually honored when they are requesting a teacher who taught in the building. We are told the loyalty stems from the fact the retired teachers know the faculty and many of the students so it works out best for everyone. How quickly the teachers forget how they all needed a foot in the door once upon a time. Well they might just get their chance if they strike!

Edward...good for your company. It's nice to hear...and I'm being honest. I doubt taxpayers pay your salary, right? That's the difference. Also note that many, many people were originally upset w/the union..not the teachers. But since this thing has dragged on and on...and the teachers still wear their green shirts to school to show..I guess the students...then we lose a bit of respect for them. Also don't forget that Geneva is a town that had parents who did SO much for the schools and the teachers. None of us are bitter about our jobs...in fact, I think many of us have said on here that we are very thankful to have a job.

I don't feel bitter towards the teachers. Nor am I bitter with my situation at work. I don't have a problem with the teachers exercising their rights. My issue is that while your company is doing well and can afford to give you a raise, the teachers' "company" is not and cannot afford such luxuries at this time. Also, the compensation and benefits system in place for teachers is antiquated and untenable. Geneva simply cannot continue to support such high levels of compensation. So yes, they're within their rights just as the BoE is within its rights to deny their requests and they will then be within their rights to go find new jobs somewhere else.

Then maybe it is the boards fault and not the teachers for dragging this thing out after all they are getting what they want with the teachers working on their old contract. Instead of just stripping away step and lane they should propose a solution that rewards one for their experience hard work and educational advances.

Edward, The board isn't exactly getting what they want with the teachers working because, well, the teachers won't be working if they strike and the indication is that they will strike if they do not get what they want. Not quite sure I follow your logic.

Now, should the traditional scheme be assessed and likely, replaced in line with the types of things done in other districts? Definitely. However, it is unlikely that the union is going to take that graciously. Should teachers be compensated and rewarded for experience, hard work and educational advances? Sure, but to a degree. I used to teach. I used to argue all the time that teachers are undervalued and underpaid. However, having seen the average levels of compensation and comparing them to my current level of compensation, I have to say that the pendulum has swung the other way. I consider myself relatively well-paid yet, according to the teachers' standards, I guess I must be grossly underpaid based on my experience, hard work and educational advances...

Edward 54, Good Work! You must be in the vinyl yard sign business ! "Did "I (Heart) Geneva Teachers" put you over the top? Or do you manage a Cash for Gold Store? or a Title Max? "busy restaurants? "Look at ones that have closed...look at ones that are offering more specials and deals than they ever did before. and the 'packed commons" ? Lets see how the sales tax figures pay out. GEA, please take off the rose-colored glasses and see the real world!

Silence dogood - So this is what it comes down to, attacking me personally and assuming what I do for a living. You know what that they say about assuming right?

Gosh, Edward, I'm SO sorry, I wasn't assuming anything, I was inferring....but hey, if that's how you choose to see it, then we'll just have to agree to disagree, and I will reluctantly acknowledge you may be half right.

Edward 54 - please explain just how the first part of the story about a teacher you had that couldn't control a classroom has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with keeping step and lane? Are you saying that without step and lane, the existing teachers will suddenly be unable to control their classrooms? Enlighten us on the connection!

Let me explain it was a two part post. Part one I respect teachers and the jobs they do and do not believe anyone can be a teacher or that it is an easy job as many if these posts imply. Second part of if you read it asks for a system to replace step in lane. I never correlated the story in part 1 to defend step and lane.

Edward, Thomas is just being silly. Not 6 aliases, you're more likely to be 1 of 388 alienated.

If this is true, then I applaud the PTO. We need the GEA to understand that we support the BOA. And now learning that Steve Young is on the IEA Retirement Board and Carol is due to retire, it seems as if this boils down to getting the most for yourself before heading out. Outrageous!

Yes, the Mill Creek PTO has communicated to the school families that PTO activities (book fair, PJ storytime with principal) will continue. I am not sure if they intended to make an intentional "statement" with their actions. Up until now the families at MC have genuinely loved their teachers. This sentiment is definitely changing with the families I have spoken with about the issues. Regardless, it proves that the PTO is thinking independently and making choices that support their school and their kids regardless of what the union chooses to do.

Unless you have been involved in your children's PTO at their respective schools, you may not realize that every school has a PTO that fundraises for that school, and the proceeds go to fulfill "wishlists" that are submitted by the teachers and consist of the items they would like to purchase for their classrooms. Sometimes it's technical equipment, sometimes learning tools, etc. So when you hear about all the "money teachers spend out of their own pockets" take it with a grain of salt! Each PTO raises thousands of dollars each year with their Fun Fairs, etc. Also, there is a huge amount of money raised by the Geneva Academic Foundation that is given in the form of grants in essentially the same way -- teachers apply for grants for classroom and/or school items, and thousands of dollars are given away each year.

Kathy...thanks for making the point about PTO fundraisers. I think the general community doesn't realize that individual PTOs raise a ton of money for their school. I don't remember what the figure stated by the PTO presidents was at the kindergarten open house, but if I recall correctly it was something like $40,000 (or more) raised with all the fun fair, book fair, spirit wear, and various fundraisers offered through out the year. If the GEA alienates the parents who fund the PTO then they will lose more then respect, they will lose a lot of $$ for luxury items they have come to expect yearly.

Bruce,
To be fair, that is a poor analogy. The skills required differ. As Thomas wrote, both require the same level of education and investment but each requires a different set of skills, strengths and responsibilities.

Rather than compare first grade and AP math, compare junior high and AP math. Junior high is not as academically advanced but is a notoriously difficult age. I would argue that though the AP math might be more challenging intellectually, that the classroom management and pupil management skills are much more challenging in jr high.

Back to first grade - a good first grade teacher, though teaching simple concepts, has a tremendous amount of preparation to ensure that their class does not lose focus, that children from many varying levels are taught the basics. At this age there is a far greater disparity in abilities than in later years.

Just saying there are many factors in the determination of compensation which is why it should be determined on a role-by-role basis driven by someone able to judge how they perform.

As for the drivers ed teacher, there's no excuse. Teachers may not realize the benefits THEY get, and I'm not talking about the "summers off" argument used so often. They are not required to suit-up, to travel away from home/family for a significant part of the year. From what I see, the situation has improved significantly and they are paid very competitively. They'd be hard-pressed to make the same in the private sector.

@ t - fair enough. What is clear is that a system that results in the Drivers Ed teacher making the mentioned salary - or anything close to it - is obviously disfunctional. As you propose elsewhere, school administration and/or department heads should have discretion to allocate available salary pools to teachers based on performance and capability. Great teachers will achieve great salaries in an open market competing for their services.

Rick, you point out the exact issues which have created the perfect storm for the IEA.
If Geneva teachers strike and fall into the crosshairs of the media, a huge audience will be watching our teachers... who are at the very apex of the educational food chain. The salaries/benefits/perks will be exposed to people who've never even heard of 100K for a PE teacher, let alone pension spiking, etc.
Think our outrage has been harsh here in Geneva? The rest of the country will gobble this up.
Also, I have to reiterate that peer evaluations have to be key in a merit-based system. I taught at Francis Parker in Chicago...every teacher had release time to
visit/peer teach in other classrooms. A visitors desk was at the back of each classroom as well. Anyone was welcome and encouraged to sit in on any class and write comments...which were then read aloud at evaluations. I had the children of aldermen, ambassadors, professors of education in my class, and
had all of their parents visit at one time. The collaborative atmosphere in the building was phenomenal.
I still have the ligature marks on my neck from my next job, in a public school. The union had us all by the throat. Maybe that's why I feel so strongly here...the teachers who don't agree with this union have no voice.
That is tragic, Arron Lee.