Will DUI Crash Fuel Fire for St. Charles Tavern Association?
St. Charles police send report to Liquor Commission after Beehive patron drove into a parked car shortly after leaving pub. The driver's blood-alochol content was three times greater than the legal limit, police said.
St. Charles police have forwarded a report to the city Liquor Commission after a woman had an accident within minutes of leaving The Beehive Tavern, 204 W. Main St., early Friday. No one was hurt in the crash, but police said the woman’s blood-alcohol content was three times the legal limit.
Police described the woman, whose blood-alcohol content was .248, as “extremely intoxicated,” and the report concludes that the tavern either overserved alcohol to the woman or allowed her to remain on the premises in an intoxicated state, both of which violate the city’s liquor code.
Kathryn Dale Doepke, 22, of the 100 block of South 3rd Street, was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol, DUI with a blood-alcohol content greater than .08, and improper lane use after the vehicle she was driving struck a parked vehicle in the 100 block of South 3rd Street. She was released on her own recognizance pending a Feb. 21, 2013 appearance in court.
The report to the Liquor Commission is significant on several counts. First, and not the least, is that it comes six months into an effort by bar owners, under intense pressure from the City Council, to reduce alcohol-related problems in the downtown. That followed complaints by the city in may over the same issues.
Second is that the report on Friday’s incident faults The Beehive, whose owner has been the spokesman for the St. Charles Tavern Association, which formed to work with the city to combat the issues and thereby appease the City Council.
It should be noted that the police report to the Liquor Commission clearly states that Beehive owner Steve Baginski was not present at the tavern during the nearly 2½ hours Doepke was there late Thursday and early Friday.
Skeptical Council
Still, that it was Baginski's bar which police highlighted in the report is likely to raise more than a few eyebrows on the City Council and elevate doubts about the association’s sincerity about addressing problems in the downtown.
Just six months ago, a spike in alcohol-related offenses downtown prompted Mayor Donald DeWitte, the city’s liquor commissioner, to propose cutting back bar hours from 2 a.m. to 1 a.m. DeWitte and alderman blamed the public drunkenness, street brawls and public urination squarely on the taverns and bars, saying the incidents were a direct result of the overservice of alcohol to patrons.
In addition to fears that a rowdy, drunken atmosphere might drive visitors away from the city’s nighttime entertainment district, an officer was struck but not injured during once incident over the summer, and a month later police wielded a Taser to subdue an intoxicated man who became belligerent with police.
The City Council never acted on DeWitte’s proposal to curb bar hours at the time, meaning the threat remains on the table for city officials to wield.
While tavern and bar owners fear the threat — some have said that final hour before closing is lucrative — they also resent it, because they believe that bar hours originally were extended to 2 a.m. to ease the businesses’ pain when the city imposed an alcoholic beverage tax.
Working for Progress
Still, most downtown tavern owners have been working to remedy the situation. They formed the St. Charles Tavern Association to combat downtown issues related to drinking, focusing on improved training for alcohol servers, self-policing themselves and instituting a “ban list,” to ensure that once a troublemaker has been banned from three downtown establishments, he or she will be banned from all of them.
McNally’s Irish Pub, 109 W. Main St., and The Office, 201 E. Main St., have resisted invitations to join the association, Baginski has told the City Council.
Te city has reciprocated as well, increasing fines for such infractions as public drunkenness and public urination to address the personal responsibility issue as it relates to patrons of the downtown establishments. And Police Chief Jim Lamkin has praised the association’s efforts, saying its members have been more diligently reporting problems before they escalate into issues of a more serious or dire nature.
Yet, aldermen have remained skeptical, and because the threat to reduce bar hours remains on the table, the City Council’s doubts have fueled fears among bar owners that their efforts may be futile.
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In This article
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The Beehive Pub
204 W Main St, St Charles, IL -
McNallys Irish Pub
109 W Main St, Saint Charles, IL -
The Office
201 E Main St, St Charles, IL -
Mark White
12:47 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Ted,
I hope you can help clarify something for me and my friend. We know the legal limit on driving and she was well over that. What is the legal BAC limit to be out in public before you are cited for public intoxication? We hope you can help with this questions. Thanks
Ted Schnell
1:02 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Mark, someone asked a similar question on the related story, so I contacted the St. Charles Police Department, which said .08 is the standard for public intoxication as well as for DUI.
By the way, while attempting to verify that .08 is the national standard -- it is - I also learned that some consider .08 to be too liberal. Sweden was cited as one country here the limit is considerably less -- just .02
Mark White
1:28 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Thanks Ted, That info should be a wakeup call for all the places in town that serve alcohol not just the bars. I know my wife and I have put down a couple bottles of wine at the local restaurants for dinner. We always take a cab home but from the information you just gave me, my wife and I are clearly breaking the law just walking around town after dinner. My friend Kev and I don't see eye to eye on some of these bar issues. Not to give you more work to do but we have another question. Do you know why the police officer did not stop the women from getting in her car and given her a citation for public intoxication? From the report it clearly shows that he saw her fall after leaving Beehive
Ted Schnell
1:47 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
As I read the report, there was no clear indication she was intoxicated at that point -- she slipped in the snow and fell, as could happen to any one of us (including, to the amusement of my kids, yours truly).
But that did catch the officer's eye enough that he/she watched her get into her vehicle and, a minute or two later, noticed the same vehicle drive down the street on the center line. That's when the officer began following her, according to the report.
I believe if the officer had had a clear indication she was intoxicated, he would have stopped the woman from driving. As I read the police reports each week, I continue to be amazed at how well the officers treat folks who have had too much to drink, sometimes even calling them a cab, for example.
Personally, I'm not sure if I'd be able to show the same level of tolerance and courtesy. I got rear-ended by a drunken driver in the late 1970s in South Elgin. I was stopped at a light, he was going 65. His girlfriend was thrown face-first against the windshield, I got lucky.
I've also, as a part of my job, had to talk with families who have lost loved ones to drunken drivers, and a good friend lost her mom to one years ago.
Most recently, I had an accident on Route 31 on a rainy night in September. I avoided a head-on collision but totaled my car. To this day, I don't know if the person in the other car was drunk or texting while driving. Either way, it's a careless disregard for others' lives.
Vanessa Bell-LaSota
2:44 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I would like something mentioned above to be made clear for the record (perhaps via a follow-up,Ted). I asked McNally's owner after the City meeting, where he had requested Council approval for special amplification for a proposed Irish fest weekend, why he had not yet joined the Association. Earlier that evening, as you reported above, Dr. Baginski of the Tav. Assn reported that McNally's owners were invited to join but have been unresponsive. It seemed to me that having just presented a special request before Council, it would be McNally's due dilligence to be onboard. The owner (Devin? sorry, cannot recall his name) said he was interested, but he had not yet been asked to join the Association. He also said that he would follow up to join.
Ted Schnell
3:23 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
That's interesting, Vanessa, because the association has complained from earlier on that The Office and McNally's had not been responsive to invites to join. Perhaps they have had fewer problems associated with their establishments and do not feel a need to join.
Mark White
3:40 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I’m sorry to say, I have also lost loved ones due to alcohol. I lost a cousin who left a bar after having some drinks. He didn’t drive but still made a bad decision walking home that cost him his life and cost all of us that loved him the joys of growing old together. To this day my entire family still does not hold the bar responsible for what happened that night. My cousin just made a bad decision that night. My cousin was not forced drinks down his throat that night and I’m sure neither was the women in this article.
I feel that sometimes as a society we feel the need to find more blame than needs to be. Sometimes an individual does just make a bad decision on their own. I guess what I’m trying to say is that we shouldn’t just rush off and blame all the bars for this young ladies bad decision to drink more than she should or her decision to get behind the wheel. If it wasn’t clear to the officer until field tests and a breathalyzer was done, how do we know the beehive staff didn’t do their jobs? I think more information is needed to clearly define who if anyone else is to blame- other then the young lady for her actions.
Mark White
3:40 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
As a long time resident of St. Charles I understand the nightlife problems going on and do feel changes are needed but I understand lasting change doesn’t happen overnight. I also feel that many people are solely putting the responsibility these changes on the bars. Individuals do not only drink in the bars in this town. The Tavern Association should change their name to the Entertainment Association and anyone with liquor license should have to join. Chief Lamkin said himself things are getting better. The nightlife is what brought me to this town years ago and it is what has helped this town grow to what it is today. I hope when all is said and done, the decision makers make their decision based on the facts alone and not narrow mindedness or political reasons.
Ted Schnell
4:03 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I'm thinking about writing a blog on this issue -- I've been giving it some thought for sometime, while listening to the city and to the liquor license holders wade through the issue.
There is a need for balance in the approach, which includes personal responsibility among patrons. But even then, the bars themselves are responsible for the kind of atmosphere or culture they encourage. I don't drink these days, but when I was young and single, had I heard of belly shots, for example, I'm fairly certain I'd have been headed for trouble and in all likelihood have ended up with AA. Just being painfully honest ...
The point is if the culture/atmosphere of an establishment encourages lots of drinking, then lots of drinking there will be. The consequences fall on both the patrons and the the bars.
I recall nights in my youth when some college bars offered specials on drinks -- two-fers we called them, because they were two drinks for the price of one. Frequently, we'd order two two-fers at a time, which essentially meant we were getting four mixed drinks per person each time we hit the bar.
My group was savvy enough to have a designated driver, but those of us who were drinking generally got sloshed, and most of the people in those college bars got sloshed as well. We were young, fearless and stupid.
Judging by the ages of the bar patrons most frequently getting into trouble in St. Charles, it seems little has changed in that regard.
Mark White
4:13 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
The blog is a good idea. Times have change since my college day, thank god!!
There should be no drink specials in town. I'm willing to pay full price to keep the kids at home. The only problem is we know they will just drink at home before they go out.
Hope someone figures it out. I live just as close to Geneva but would rather spend my money in my oun town.
Lois Lane
4:33 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I believe McNally's is owned by Maurice McNally and Michael Phillips, don't know who Devin is. But regardless, I think all the businesses that serve alcohol in StC should belong to the Association and be involved in the discussions and decisions that are made.
Karl Brubaker
5:58 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Ted,
I've long said that I think the last-call time should be earlier. Nobody wants to see bars suffer but the 11:00 PM to 2:00 AM crowd seems to get most of the blame (and rightly so).
Has there been any discussion on the type of alcohol that might be the problem. You can find advertisements for shots all the time. Surely it's not $8 mixed drinks. Beer and wine are pretty tame compared to Jaeger bombs. Just a thought.
LisaS
6:22 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
In reading this and following this story the past 6 months I have some questions
1. Why does the City Council feel that the individuals involved in these incidents are not responsible for their actions. It seems evident that the Council feels that a certain segment of bar owners are responsible for all of the bad behavior in downtown St Charles. At what point did these bars become responsible for the behavior of all their patrons.
2. In the incident referenced above, the young lady blew a .248 bac, was she offered any medical attention? It seems odd that someone could be that intoxicated and walk by staff at a bar, past 2 police officers, fall down get up get into her car and not draw any attention from anyone?
Ted Schnell
7:01 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
Hello Lisa,
In answer to your first question, the city raised the fines for the infraction that have posed the greatest concern -- public drunkenness, public fighting and public urination. That puts some of the responsibility where it belongs -- on the patrons. I do not recall how much the fines were increased, but it seemed to me they went up quite a bit.
In reference to your second question, I can say, with shame from personal experience in my youth, that .248, generally speaking, is not in the kill zone -- barring getting behind the wheel. When I was younger, a lot of bars had Breathalyzer-type devices that, at least initially I think, were installed with the intent of reminding patrons they should not drive over the limitm which back then was .1. Unfortunately, the devices became something of a game for some people, and .24 or .25 was nothing. By the way, the group I drank with generally had a designated driver, unless we were drinking on campus, when driving was not an issue.
I believe the point at which blood-alcohol content becomes dangerous varies from person to person, but Wellness.com say .4 or greater is dangerous and potentially deadly (http://www.wellness.com/reference/health-and-wellness/blood-alcohol-content-bac)
LisaS
8:16 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
From your research (and admittedly personal experience) you know what .24 BAC feels like. And, from your research I'm sure you realize that how a person metabolizes and reacts to alcohol depends on many factors. We can probably agree that you could (and sounds like you did) walk around a bar coherent at .24 while others may be in a drunken stupor at .12 (depending on such factors as weight, general health, daily alcohol intake, medications and gender.)
That being said, is it fair to assume that the girl in question may have been at .24 and truly seemed ok? Could it be that she was moving about the bar, talking with friends, playing pool perhaps? Could it be that she is a habitual drinker? Is it possible she hid it well from the bartenders, staff, and police she walked by? In my opinion, a DUI is a DUI and at the end of the day, she is responsible for her actions and bad choices, no one else!